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Personal children, how many is too many?
putkidsfirst Feb 25 2006, 11:19 PM Post #1
My workplace allows only two, and one of them must be school aged. I like this,
though many of my co-workers do not. Look, I've worked with people that had
several kids (3 or more) and they simply couldn't do the job well. Either the
children of the facility got ignored or the HP's personal children got ignored.
Does anyone want to trry and convince me that this job can be done well by
someone with more than two children?
nmmommy Feb 26 2006, 09:22 AM Post #2
I'm not going to try to convince you of anything, just respond. Our facility
does not have any rules on the # of personal children. We have 1. Two couples
have 3 each. Another couple has 2. The other couple's children are grown. We'd
love to have more children of our own, but God hasn't allowed that at this
time. I think as long as your job is getting done, it shouldn't matter how many
children you have.
putkidsfirst Feb 26 2006, 10:17 AM Post #3
Well here's the thing...what exactly is "getting the job done"? I have worked
with people who get the job done but that's all they do. They are so busy that
there are no bonds or relationships built, there homes are like factories
turning out a product. Often the personal children are sort of "bratty" because
they HP's have to focus on the children in the home and as such let their
personal children slide far too often. Also you will see staffs personal kids
act out in order to get their attention. Sometimes staff children will become
tattle tales on the house children out of resentment. In most or all of these
cases the staff are "getting the job done" on paper, but the children are a
little messed up because of how hectic the staffs lives are.
sandylegsntoes Feb 26 2006, 03:20 PM Post #4
Hiya, I raised six children of my own. It isn't the NUMBER of children one has
to keep track of, it's how one manages it. LOVE IS NOT DIVIDED, IT'S
MULITIPLIED!
Prayer, planning, time management and organization.
I "special pray" the first thing every morning...for wisdom, patience,
discernment and the ability to love unconditionally. I pray without ceasing
thoroughout the day.
Planning. From the time that the kids were toddlers, I taught them about
structure and planning. Long before planners were in vogue, the kids scheduled
things such as: what day and times they would use the washer/dryer, TV,
basketball hoop, and so on. We planned daily, weekly, monthly, in six month
periods, in one year frames....basically short term and long term goals. We
were adaptable and flexible, too!
Organization...to me, nothing cuts down on confusion and strife than knowing
where things are when they are needed. I love the saying...'there's a place for
everything and everything in it's place!' There's nothing like needing a pair
of scissors or a needle and thread and knowing where to go get it knowing that
it will be there. Shoes, bookbags, hair clips, and so on were easy to find,
thus cutting down on a mad rush, confusion and strife.
Activities. I am a firm believer that bored children, teens or adults are
boring! We kept activity centers, much like at school....a place to do
art-complete with ample construction paper, crayons, markers, glue sticks, etc.
We kept books for all age groups...and a place to read with a good light. We
had dress up bins, make-up boxes, a place for baseballs, soccer balls,
basketballs, skates, etc.
I've carried many of the ways of raising my own kids into the houseparenting
job. I don't have the high energy like I did during my young mommy years, but
to whom God calls, He also equips. There is a reason why God gives kids to
younger adults, hahahahahaha.
putkidsfirst Feb 26 2006, 04:37 PM Post #5
That sounds GREAT, but how managable do you think all of that would be with
more than two of your own personal children as well as 10-15 in care children?
raider72 Feb 26 2006, 10:59 PM Post #6
Not a cut and dry subject either. We have 3 bio kids and have houseparented for
8+ years but I agree I have seen more people struggle with bio kids than people
be successful. It is a difficult issue, one problem is this ministry and these
kids will reveal every weekness we have including our parenting. So when you
have your own it can be pretty tough. Also there is a very real resentment by
placed kids and bios that has to be addressed. I also would point out that the
amount of kids a facility requires you to take is a factor in the success of
families with their own kids. 10-15 kids in my opinion is to many and is one of
the things wrong with our industry but if you cut back to 4-6 where do the
others go. Tough questions.
putkidsfirst Feb 26 2006, 11:53 PM Post #7
Cutting back on the ammount of kids in a house would indeed help, but as you
said we need to help as many as possible. My facility takes 13 per home and
while my wife and I can manage that many (in the past we had as many as 16) you
could hire staff with more biological children if they had less children to
care for,
I think a solid number is 10. I see no reason it should ever have to be below
8.
momof10 Mar 9 2006, 07:00 AM Post #8
16 kids?? 10 even is a HUGE amount of kids to work with! I am glad you can do
it but personally, I would be spread too thin. We have 8 now plus our own two
kids and I wish I had more time for personal one on one time with the boys. My
ideal number would be 6.
One thing though, bio kids teach the kids in care how it is to live in a family
with healthy boundaries and behaviors. My boys have learned so much from our
bio kids and we have been able to model parenting to them that they can take
with them to their own future families. Plus our own kids have 8 big brothers!
We have a blast!
Yes, people without kids can do their job differently than a couple with kids
but it is just different, not better/worse. Each couple brings to the job
unique strenths.
Glad you are able to make it work for your family.
putkidsfirst Mar 11 2006, 03:12 PM Post #9
Question...
The more children you personally have, doesn't that make it more difficult to
do things for the other children? What I mean is, we are so often
"inconvenienced" in this job. Learning to over come our "inconvenience" is a
struggle for most. Don't you have more to over come with children of your own?
Especially the more you have?
gracecountry62 Mar 12 2006, 04:02 PM Post #10
QUOTE(putkidsfirst @ Feb 25 2006, 11:19 PM)
My workplace allows only two, and one of them must be school aged. I like this,
though many of my co-workers do not. Look, I've worked with people that had
several kids (3 or more) and they simply couldn't do the job well. Either the
children of the facility got ignored or the HP's personal children got ignored.
Does anyone want to trry and convince me that this job can be done well by
someone with more than two children?
My wife and I have 4 children ofour own have done child care for 8 yrs now we
are Family teaching couple working with Mentaly challenged adults which is very
much more stressful than basic child care.
We are doing great and wehave such aloving bond with our kids as well as with
those in our care, it is true not all are called to do such serving in this
type of workbut it can be done anyone who saids otherwise is either leaned on
the negative side of hearing where ones with several kids failed or that they
really do nothave a clue of what they are talking about .we can be living proof
it can be done with 3 or more God does the calling not anyperson big
difference, We seen couples with 1 to 2 kids that could not continue in child
care work it does notmake any difference 1 kid 2 kids 3 , or 4 or more some
families knowhow to multi-task very well.
gracecountry62 Mar 12 2006, 04:16 PM Post #11
QUOTE(putkidsfirst @ Feb 25 2006, 11:19 PM)
My workplace allows only two, and one of them must be school aged. I like this,
though many of my co-workers do not. Look, I've worked with people that had
several kids (3 or more) and they simply couldn't do the job well. Either the
children of the facility got ignored or the HP's personal children got ignored.
Does anyone want to trry and convince me that this job can be done well by
someone with more than two children?
My wife and I have 4 children ofour own have done child care for 8 yrs now we
are Family teaching couple working with Mentaly challenged adults which is very
much more stressful than basic child care.
We are doing great and wehave such aloving bond with our kids as well as with
those in our care, it is true not all are called to do such serving in this
type of workbut it can be done anyone who saids otherwise is either leaned on
the negative side of hearing where ones with several kids failed or that they
really do nothave a clue of what they are talking about .we can be living proof
it can be done with 3 or more God does the calling not anyperson big
difference, We seen couples with 1 to 2 kids that could not continue in child
care work it does notmake any difference 1 kid 2 kids 3 , or 4 or more some
families knowhow to multi-task very well.
Oh yes we have worked with 10kids plus our 4 we balanced it all out treated
everyone equal.
momof10 Mar 14 2006, 09:02 PM Post #12
Actually, we have seen a lot of people come and go and they have no children!
Most of the long timers here are the ones that have children. They have done a
great job of working with the residents and taking care of their own kids. Kids
in my opionion add a depth to the job that a couple without kids can't.
To me, it depends on the couple, not how many kids they have. The only reason
why a family with kids should be concerned is safety issues.
putkidsfirst Mar 14 2006, 10:32 PM Post #13
Ok, please don't get annoyed with me, but I have yet to read an explination as
to how the job can be done as effectively with your own personal children as it
can without them. The only reason I can think of is the experience, besides
that I am still at a loss. Let's look at some situations.
1) Do you treat your children and those in the home differently? The same? How
so exactly? How do you justify doing either?
2) Say your personal children have an event (game, play, concert, etc.) and a
child or two in your house has one as well. What do you do? Who's event do you
attend? What if they both have graduation on the same day?
3) Let's say you have two small children and you have a day where you have to
run a lot of the kids in your home all over the place. How does the one of you
in the house all day care for your two small children AND the children in the
home? What if there is a fight? What if two or three need serious home work
help? What if something like that happens plus the phone is ringing as well?
4) Say your teen child develops feelings for a child in the home. How do you
deal with that?
I could come up with many more, but lets start with those.
gracecountry62 Mar 14 2006, 10:40 PM Post #14
QUOTE(momof10 @ Mar 14 2006, 09:02 PM)
Actually, we have seen a lot of people come and go and they have no children!
Most of the long timers here are the ones that have children. They have done a
great job of working with the residents and taking care of their own kids. Kids
in my opionion add a depth to the job that a couple without kids can't.
To me, it depends on the couple, not how many kids they have. The only reason
why a family with kids should be concerned is safety issues.
Applaud everyone, very well put momof10 we seren our children appreciate life
so much more than most kids just because they see what the kids are going
through in their own lives they appreciate so much more thank God for our own
children our kids love it so much having foster brothers and sisters in our
care will never trade it for nothing God speed
QUOTE(putkidsfirst @ Feb 25 2006, 11:19 PM)
My workplace allows only two, and one of them must be school aged. I like this,
though many of my co-workers do not. Look, I've worked with people that had
several kids (3 or more) and they simply couldn't do the job well. Either the
children of the facility got ignored or the HP's personal children got ignored.
Does anyone want to trry and convince me that this job can be done well by
someone with more than two children?
After reading a great deal of your posts I feel you really do not think it can
work with someone having kids ofg their own , well sorry to bust your bubble
but it can work already proven it several times so now lets concentrate bon how
to offer a better life to those in need than so caught up in hearing who is
making it or not not important at all.
putkidsfirst Mar 14 2006, 11:35 PM Post #15
I know it can work, but here is my problem.
I work with some people who think it should be ok to have as many personal
children as they want, as close together as they want to have them. I am not
against HP's having personal children, I am against HP's insisting that it
doesn't matter how many kids you have or how old they are. That's foolishness.
What do you mean when you say it's been proven that this can be the case? That
the home they worked in didn't burn down? Did the kids they cared for excel and
know the HP's loved and cared for them as well? How do you measure success?
I listed some specific questions that I would like to see those with several
personal children answer.
webmaster Mar 15 2006, 07:05 PM Post #16
Doing this kind of work with birth children regardless of the number depends:
1. On what kind of facility you work at. In many of the B-mod facilities it
would NOT be possible to have birth children at all and frankly as a parent I
wouldn't want to.
2. The accommodations available for staff. In our first home our entire family
of four had to live in one room that was 10'X11' and we shared the bathroom
with house visitors. My children were 2 and 5, 9 years later we could not have
done this at all.
As far as facilities that do allow birth children, I have several beliefs:
1. I think the ideal houseparents are recent empty nester's. They have raised
birth children and fulfilled the need to be parents and have a family yet are
young enough to deal with the physical and mental demands required of them. In
my experience, many houseparents that don't have birth children try to make the
home children their surrogate family(especially in basic care facilities) and
this leads to conflict with the children, administration, and other staff. It
also takes away from meeting the children's needs in favor of meeting the
houseparents need to be parents. (AND YES I KNOW THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS!!)
2. I also believe the the larger the number of children the more difficult it
is to meet the children's needs. There are only 24 hours in a day and you have
to sleep some of that. Our census has varied from 8 to 14 children including
our staff kids over the last 9 years and I can tell you there is a huge
difference in what we are able to give each child as far as time and attention
on both extremes. I personally thing 8 is a perfect number and personally
testify that my stress level goes up and my ability to give goes down
proportionally as more children are added.
As far as how you treat staff kids as opposed to home children, it totally
depends on the situation. In a B-mod facility I did not treat them the same.
The children I worked with in the B-mod program were there to work on issues
they had and my children were there because that is where their parents worked.
In the basic care facility we are currently at they are treated much closer to
the same, realizing they will never be treated the same by either me or the
facility.
When it comes time to take relief our birth children go with us and will always
go with us.
When the home children are provided with sometimes hundreds of dollars worth of
Christmas gifts from supporters my children are not included.
When the home children are sent to expensive camps provided by the home and
supporters my children are not included.
My children are allowed to drive when they are old enough - the home children
are not (INSURANCE ISSUES)
My children will probably have student loans after college - the home children
do NOT.
etc.
As far as activities - Birth vs. Home: We try to be as fair as we can be and
realize that with 10 children, we will not be able to attend everything that
everybody does. That is why we have video cameras. In fact my wife had to miss
our daughter's very first band concert in December because of Open House at the
cottage. I went and video taped it. Even in the "Real World" parents miss
things. Both my parents had jobs and missed a lot of the things I did. As far
as graduations go, in our town with about 8 different schools the graduations
are all at different times, and yes we may have to miss a reception from time
to time but we have never missed a graduation.
BTW, my child has had feelings for home children and home children for mine.
Working at a home is a lifestyle and when your children spend the vast majority
of their time with home children there is going to be attraction. My feelings
are if it is age appropriate, no big deal.
Also my children have been exposed to inappropriate behavior that they probably
would not have been had we not worked in the home, but the key is to be
proactive. We had to educate our children about certain behaviors probably
before we would have had we not been houseparents, but they would have had to
learn it eventually anyway.
There is probably a lot more that I can say, but I think you probably get my
gist by now, if not too bad - I am on relief and it is time to watch "Survivor"
putkidsfirst Mar 16 2006, 08:16 AM Post #17
QUOTE
Doing this kind of work with birth children regardless of the number depends:
1. On what kind of facility you work at. In many of the B-mod facilities it
would NOT be possible to have birth children at all and frankly as a parent I
wouldn't want to.
Good point. Almost all of our discussion, opinions, etc. is going to depend on
the kind of home/facility you work for/at, absolutely!
QUOTE
2. The accommodations available for staff. In our first home our entire family
of four had to live in one room that was 10'X11' and we shared the bathroom
with house visitors. My children were 2 and 5, 9 years later we could not have
done this at all.
YIKES! I can't even imagine that poor of acomodations!
QUOTE
1. I think the ideal houseparents are recent empty nester's. They have raised
birth children and fulfilled the need to be parents and have a family yet are
young enough to deal with the physical and mental demands required of them. In
my experience, many houseparents that don't have birth children try to make the
home children their surrogate family(especially in basic care facilities) and
this leads to conflict with the children, administration, and other staff. It
also takes away from meeting the children's needs in favor of meeting the
houseparents need to be parents. (AND YES I KNOW THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS!!)
Just so long as you (or whoever) don't see love and devotion to children in
care as "making the children in care your surrogate family". I am certain this
happens, but too many people equate loving and being devoted to the children in
your care to some kind of dangerous thinking. I've had administrators where I
used to work tell me I cared too much. That's INSANE IMO.
QUOTE
2. I also believe the the larger the number of children the more difficult it
is to meet the children's needs. There are only 24 hours in a day and you have
to sleep some of that. Our census has varied from 8 to 14 children including
our staff kids over the last 9 years and I can tell you there is a huge
difference in what we are able to give each child as far as time and attention
on both extremes. I personally thing 8 is a perfect number and personally
testify that my stress level goes up and my ability to give goes down
proportionally as more children are added.
I think this also depends on the kind/type of facility you work for. I have 13
girls and have no problem doing my job at all. However, where I used to work
should never have more than eight in a home. The kids were too needy to pack
them together.
QUOTE
As far as how you treat staff kids as opposed to home children, it totally
depends on the situation. In a B-mod facility I did not treat them the same.
The children I worked with in the B-mod program were there to work on issues
they had and my children were there because that is where their parents worked.
In the basic care facility we are currently at they are treated much closer to
the same, realizing they will never be treated the same by either me or the
facility.
* When it comes time to take relief our birth children go with us and will
always go with us.
* When the home children are provided with sometimes hundreds of dollars worth
of Christmas gifts from supporters my children are not included.
* When the home children are sent to expensive camps provided by the home and
supporters my children are not included.
* My children are allowed to drive when they are old enough - the home children
are not (INSURANCE ISSUES)
* My children will probably have student loans after college - the home
children do NOT.
* etc.
All good points, but what I am talking about is your "sterness". For example,
say your birth child acts disrespectfully. Would you be as upset at your
biological child for this as you would the children in care? I've all too often
seen HP's allow their biological children to run ammock, act disrespectful
toward their parents, etc. and do little about it. However, the second a child
from the home says something even slightly out of line (say questions why they
have to do a certain chore) the staff freak out and hand out major
consequences.
QUOTE
As far as activities - Birth vs. Home: We try to be as fair as we can be and
realize that with 10 children, we will not be able to attend everything that
everybody does. That is why we have video cameras. In fact my wife had to miss
our daughter's very first band concert in December because of Open House at the
cottage. I went and video taped it. Even in the "Real World" parents miss
things. Both my parents had jobs and missed a lot of the things I did. As far
as graduations go, in our town with about 8 different schools the graduations
are all at different times, and yes we may have to miss a reception from time
to time but we have never missed a graduation.
I liked your point about "real world" parents missing things. I love to attend
my kids activities but I try and teach them that no good parent attends
everything. Too many kids today think parents must attend every activity they
are a part of.
QUOTE
BTW, my child has had feelings for home children and home children for mine.
Working at a home is a lifestyle and when your children spend the vast majority
of their time with home children there is going to be attraction. My feelings
are if it is age appropriate, no big deal.
Cool, but I've seen many HP's teach their children that the kids in care are
completely off limits and "below them".
QUOTE
Also my children have been exposed to inappropriate behavior that they probably
would not have been had we not worked in the home, but the key is to be
proactive. We had to educate our children about certain behaviors probably
before we would have had we not been houseparents, but they would have had to
learn it eventually anyway.
Great! But again, many HP's get more angry when a child in care acts up around
their personal child. It's as if the child in care needs to be punished harder
for not respecting the fact that the staff person has children.
Thanks for the reply! I wish everyone with personal children would enter this
discussion in such a way.
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